Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

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Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brad West » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:50 am

Threads like this one that are controversial are great for stimulating your thoughts and voicing your opinion. Remember they are opinions and everyone has a right to them please respect them. No Flaming others for their opinions.

I believe that Obama was not the best choice for the Job!

Like most people I hadn't actually taken the time to listen to people that have actually read the US Health Care Proposal. Since is has been in the news some , not as much as it should be since all the big network syndicates are government run and told what to say and not to say.

We have absolutely no freedom whatsoever here in the US.
You think that is a crazy statement? well just take a look at what Betsy McCaughey former Lt. Governor of New York has to say. She has read the Health Care Bill ans is trying to help keep us all form falling victim to certain death.

This plan actually lays out that you should contemplate death if you are sick to a certain degree for societies sake. Also the fact is you WILL LOOSE your current health care and forced into government care if your current policy changes in any way. Denial of care is totally up to the government you will not even be able to pay for treatment yourself, this will be illegal.

Betsy McCaughey on The Mark Levin Radio Show
Watch on youtube.com



Page 425 of the Obamacare bill mandates that the elderly and seriously ill
undergo sessions to pressure them to choose death.

Watch on youtube.com


Here are the contact numbers to Take Action Now!


The White House
202-456-1414

U.S. Congress
202-224-3121

Here is where you go to contact your

Congressperson in the U.S. House of Representatives

Here is a site to find your

Senators

I have done this much for you Now it is up to you to take a few minutes out of your busy life and possibly save your self from this atrocity. I have found that most people that don't take action on something bitch the most after the fact when things aren't going their way.

Ever notice that?
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Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

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Are we like, Totally Insane

Postby Brad West » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:41 am

Ok No one wants to take the time to add to this thread!
Possibly the lack of interaction and involvement could have something to do with the state we are in.
This recession isn't over hell it just got started really, last time they tried to buy their way out of debt it kind of caused a crash, I think they called that the Great Depression. Wonder what they will call this one.

    The health care plan will be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it.

    It's passed by a Congress that hasn't read it.

    The funding is directed by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes.

    Totally overseen by a surgeon general who is obese

    Financed by a country that is totally broke.


What possibly could go wrong?

Now is the time to take all you have and invest in yourself, and yell so your voice is heard.
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Re: Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brian Hawkins » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:21 pm

Hi Brad, we share different views when it comes to matters such as this and that's ok. It's impossible for guys like us to get all the facts because everyone with the facts has their own agendas and aren't afraid to lie and deceive to get their way. That's on both sides of the isle and everywhere you look. That's one thing we do agree with, I think. The rest is just interpretation.

I'm of the opinion that everyone has the right to live a healthy life. I don't think it should have anything to do with how good your job is, how much money you have or who you know. If someone's sick, they should be taken care of. That includes the rich, poor, the middle class or the cracks addict in the alleys of Detroit. I'm a big believer in the free market system and I love business, you know that. I also know that this system we have right now isn't working. I don't have to cite statistics like medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy. All I have to do is walk two doors down and look at Joe's empty foreclosed home because his wife got cancer. He lost everything because his medical insurance through work was crap. There are thousands of Joe's every day struggling to cope with this issue so I know something must be done and soon.

I also know everything the Government touches turns into a big expensive mess that can't function. I don't like the idea of Government run anything expect the Military and things like that. I'm also very concerned when things start getting push into action very quickly by the government. That's almost always a sign of deceit and disaster. Look at the bank bailouts.

As far as the expense, we could have paid for this several times over when we were shelling out trillions to the banks and other big business so they could in turn snub their noses at the rest of us.

As far as Betsy McCaughey, I'm not ready to make a decision from anything she says. She's a very smart lady with her own agenda. She also thinks the rest of us are dumb as rocks. Here's one of my problems with her:

As executor of his will, several months ago I sat down with my Father and an attorney to set up his living will. I was amazed at how detailed and extensive it was. It allowed him to pre-decided every little detail in the event he became incapacitated. Everything from how his bills are paid to who takes care of him. A living will doesn't say you get unplugged when put on life support, it says whatever you want it to. It can say you want every possible action taken to save your life. That's just a small part of a living will but Betsy McCaughey goes from speech to speech and interview to interview, usually unchecked and unchallenged, turning the whole 'living will' requirement into ' the government insists you die when too sick'. This is what has turned into the whole 'death panel' nonsense. She didn't use the actual words 'death panel' but she played a huge role in getting that crazy notion started.

I don't watch a lot of TV but I have caught Jon Stewart on the Daily Show a few times. Jon Stewart is a funny and smart guy full of talent but I wouldn't think he would be the guy to listen to for serious issues. Now I'm not so sure after seeing his interview with Betsy McCaughey. He takes her to task and doesn't let her get away with saying anything without evidence or reason. Watch these three clips and see what I see: http://4u2bn.com/ku01

Off Topic
I listen to a lot of public radio and I recently heard a fantastic interview with author T. R. Reid who wrote "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care". He traveled around the world and looked in depth at other country's health care programs. I bought the book and I'm almost ready to start reading it. I'm a slow reader but once I'm finished with it I'll send it to you if interested.
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Re: Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brad West » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:19 pm

Wow! Brian as always you brought allot to the table here.

I think that we agree on and have allot more common ground, than I'm letting on to here. I do post extreme at times in the hopes to draw a bit more attention. The facts are that I am really just trying to stimulate awareness.

I think that people on ether side of this debit need to make compromise to actually make health care benefit the people it needs to.

I believe that people should have the freedom to make decisions about their health and the health of their families.

I believe that Pharmaceutical companies, Insurance companies, Hospitals, Health care facilities and Doctors should be accountable for their actions. There not they are just feeding each other in a frenzy of cash.

On the other hand I feel that people themselves should be accountable also, I understand loving your family and being concerned for their well being. But running to the emergency room every time little Johny has a snotty nose is utterly ridicules and there should be consequences for stupidity. No one is accountable for their actions anymore, no one.

I totally agree something drastic needs to be done with health care and now. My biggest concern as I said is freedom. We don't have much freedom left in this country.

My hopes are that everyone that is voting on this next revised bill actually reads it!
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Now for Betsy McCaughey

Postby Brad West » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:42 pm

I'm posting this separate because I believe it is a separate issue. The interpretation of the Health Care Bill by Betsy McCaughey could very well be blown out of proportion. The death panel theories lost credibility when Sara Palin screamed about them, that didn't help matters any. Personally I have not seen or read the proposed bill but I am glad even if extremest there are someone at least trying to interpret what could very I'm sure is a very complex bill. Our lives depend on it. Being extreme is not always a bad thing.

God knows as you stated about your neighbor, we already have people deciding if you live or die based on what they can take from you.
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Re: Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brian Hawkins » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:00 pm

I guess we are closer on the topic than I thought. We are a lot alike when it comes to extreme or shocking statements to wake others up - thus born my tag line "That's Right I Said IT" ;)

Hey, are we the only two members with the guts to post our thoughts and opinions on tough topics? I'd love to see some other member's opinions. It's a friendly forum, no one is going to attack anyone, share your opinions.
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Re: Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brad West » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:18 pm

ExtremeEzine wrote:Hey, are we the only two members with the guts to post our thoughts and opinions on tough topics? I'd love to see some other member's opinions. It's a friendly forum, no one is going to attack anyone, share your opinions.


Off Topic
Here is my take on your question, not sure if it is the absolute truth and it is form my observation. I have given a bunch of free memberships away to people I saw value in for one, and I thought they may benefit from not only back links to their site but be able to experience the power of just posting about what they thought, felt, loved or had some knowledge about.

Now you know as well as I do the wonderful powerful thing about a forum is the more you post and share your intelligence the more exposure you get. Putting that in the perspective of selling, the most effective way of attracting people to who you are and what you do is establishing a trust, letting down the walls and allowing people to see who you are, just by knowing you a little more stimulates interest in what you do.

People just don't realize that by interacting and taking the time to show some of their intellect not only leaves another footprint in the sand for people to find, but that footprint has their profile info and sig-line with what they stand behind right there. some people including the profile link have the choice of 3,4,5 places to go and see what you do all in one place.

Don't get me wrong Blogs are great we have multiple blogs, love'em but they have to be hooked up somewhere to get found. We are reading more and more by the big marketers that forums are of great value, also there are people looking for payment systems to put on their forums. We are excited because spam free forums are of huge value because they rank. Spam boards seem to have been found and unrecognized for the most part.

It is not only a whole education thing to get people to realize what they are missing out on and they don't have to push their products in peoples faces every time they type to get anywhere. And like most anything else it usually takes a couple big names that make allot of money to say forums are ok, then people will go do it.

It is defiantly baffling to me how people follow the money people and buy everything they sell, don't get what they need so they buy more still getting nowhere, so there they wait for the next thing to buy from them. Not saying that is bad marketing by any means. Take a look at what they are marketing and how they are marketing it instead of focusing on the material they are selling you and there is the answer.

Anyway forums are great yad yad yada!
nobody listens it doesn't matter we will build this forum and be ready.
We are about a year and a half ahead already.
And when it comes to spam free and great pure content and how to's We kill'um.


This post has gone way off topic thanks to me.
Back on track this is a Health Care thread we are basically discussing how no matter what happens the little guy will get screwed again. OK no flaming,
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Why oppose Obama's health care "reform" plan

Postby Brad West » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:22 am

I am posting this because I want to clarify a few things of where I stand on the health care reform issue. It seems that my views are pretty much right in line with with Natural News. I am for reform of the broken Health Care system as it is running right now. I do support President Obama and his noble attempt to make this work. There should be some more involvement by the people to come to a viable resolution. Here is a little bit from Mike Adams at Natural News.

This article is intended to clarify our position. Ultimately, we here at NaturalNews believe very strongly in three things relevant to this debate:

#1) Natural medicine and the healing power of the human body and spirit.

#2) Personal liberty and the non-intervention of Big Government in our day-to-day lives.

#3)
Personal responsibility and free will to do what we wish with our own lives as long as it does not involve harming others.

We are also firmly opposed to the pharmaceutical cartel, the highly corrupt and ineffective health insurance industry and government regulators like the FDA and FTC who continue to enforce this failed medical monopoly upon the American people.

Based on these principles, we must maintain strong opposition to any plan -- from any President -- that would remove choice from consumers and force people to pay their hard-earned money into a system that financially supports precisely those institutions that we oppose (Big Pharma, health insurance corporations, etc.).

In theory, I am personally a strong advocate of universal care, where every person is covered under a single plan that's affordable and efficient. But when that plan continues to focus on pushing pharmaceuticals and surgery over nutrition and prevention, I cannot in good conscience lend it my support. To do so would be a blatant violation of my opposition to Big Pharma, vaccines and the health freedom oppressions of the FDA and FTC.

While the current sick-care system operating in America today is clearly broken, you cannot fix one failed system by mandating another failed system. We agree that health care needs serious reform, and in fact, I personally put together one of the most innovative health care reform plans that has yet been proposed in America. It's called the Health Revolution Petition, and you can read its details here: HealthRevolutionPetition

You may read the remainder of this article on Natural News.
Why NaturalNews opposes Obama's health care "reform" plan: a statement of principles
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Obama Health care Revealed

Postby Brad West » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:38 pm

I have not investigated the validity of this letter or references I am assuming that Dr. Stephen E. Frazer, MD has done his homework though.

An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Healthcare Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Frazer, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis, IN ) Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser

July 23, 2009

Senator Bayh,
As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164:Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN)..

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans--The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services.
(Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18:The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan..

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!) Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors / American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17:An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan.(NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25:Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families.
(Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24:ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.) Page 150 Lines 9-13:A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23:ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2..5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes.
(Americans will pay.)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records..

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax."
(Yes, it really says that!) Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors.
(Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same!
(Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18:The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc.
(Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.) Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.) Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc.

(Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!) Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; & guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
(I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy.. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,
Stephen E. Fraser, MD

Dear Reader, I urge you to use the power that you were born with (and the power that may soon be taken away) and circulate this email to as many people as you can reach. The Power of the People can stop this from happening to us, our parents, our grandparents, our children, and to following generations..

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Re: Obama Health Care is a Huge Lie and Insane

Postby Brad West » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm

"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that
one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and
three or more is a congress."
-- John Adams


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